00:30:26 tommyjtl has joined #css 00:47:49 ojan has joined #css 01:09:41 florian has joined #css 01:16:47 tantek has joined #css 01:17:58 Greetings from outside 48 01:18:48 Inside now 01:20:38 florian has joined #css 01:36:01 florian has joined #css 01:36:14 tantek has joined #css 02:06:14 florian has joined #css 02:50:04 florian has joined #css 03:09:06 tommyjtl has joined #css 03:09:22 Florian_ has joined #css 03:15:04 tantek has joined #css 03:53:11 plinss: could http://dev.w3.org/csswg/ be 301 redirects to https://drafts.csswg.org/ instead of a proxy? 03:53:21 also, could http://drafts.csswg.org/ have HSTS? 03:54:17 SimonSapin: it’s possible to set up, but it’s better to keep the drafts in the w3.org URL space for persistence 03:54:43 the next option is to get css.w3.org … (which may be possible soon) 03:55:36 I can add HSTS but I need to be sure the dev.w3.org proxy is using https first 03:55:37 apparently it’s hard to have HTTPS on dev.w3.org 03:57:05 yeah, the TAG has been discussing the issues with moving all of w3.org to https, too many existing links. But maybe we can get dev.w3.org moved 03:59:13 Quoting: I’d rather we just quit using dev.w3.org altogether 04:18:21 tommyjtl has joined #css 04:25:07 Wait why is it a problem? 04:25:26 Is it not possible to have http://dev.w3.org/ redirect to https://dev.w3.org? 04:28:09 yes, it can redirect, the problem is the millions of existing links to http://*.w3.org that will never get updated and will double the number of http roundtrips 04:28:25 for just dev.w3.org it shouldn’t be as big of a deal as all of w3.org 04:28:53 (if found out the other day the dev.w3.org/csswg is half the traffic of dev.w3.org) 04:29:04 s/if/I/ 04:32:57 with existing documents people would get stuck in redirect loops 04:33:02 (it’s been tried too) 04:33:54 I also remember something about the hardware that runs dev.w3.org being old and dying, but I don’t see why it couldn’t be replaced 04:33:57 we could have an outgoing apache filter that replaced https with https in static files but not in js so easily 04:34:07 SimonSapin, given grants from Members, yes 04:34:25 iirc the current hardware was supplied by HP in fact, although i might be a generation behind 04:35:12 (or non-Members i suppose!) 04:36:35 if it’s really a money question, I’d consider giving 10$ a month out of pocket for a Linode box 04:36:56 no, not only $ 04:37:14 although that’s kind of you 🙂 04:37:47 csswg.org runs out of a linode box 04:38:19 (my point was surprise that it would be a money question, given the price of servers these days) 04:39:24 if people link to both equally, does it prefer https or http? 04:39:56 http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/https-as-ranking-signal.html 04:40:26 liam: FWIW, HP recently offered to donate a rack full of servers, and was politely refused… they went into the recycling bin 04:40:30 SimonSapin, no, it’s not even primarily money 04:40:37 plinss, 🙁 i’d have had them! 🙂 04:40:58 (I don’t know about that, so don’t know why) 04:41:21 fantasai, google has a guide on how to migrate from http to https 04:41:41 they say you have to use redirects or you risk getting penalized for duplicate content 04:41:52 but yes, prefer https 04:42:02 (and what they say isn’t necessarily the full sotry of course) 04:43:15 the laptop i’m keeping going as long as possible though 04:45:04 timbl did an experiment with an http header recently, the consequence of which is that anyone who read his email ended up getting blocked automatically from w3.org even if they didn’t explicitly visit the test page 04:45:23 (unclear if it was because browsers have a shared database, or ebcause of readahead) 04:51:07 heh, I was there. He added an HSTS header to a page, and that page redirected https to http 04:51:42 so every browser that visited the page would only visit the https url for the next year (until the hsts expired) 04:51:50 yes 04:55:07 liam: I think Google should just collapse the links on their own, it’s silly not to 04:55:38 liam: Theoretically one could serve different content to each, but it doesn’t really make sense unless the http one is a redirect to the https 🙂 05:04:56 fantasai: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-values/#custom-idents what does “positionally-ambiguous” mean compared to just “ambiguous”? 05:10:43 tantek has joined #css 05:17:20 SimonSapin: I think it should say “positionally-variable values” instead of “positionally-ambiguous keywords” 05:17:31 SimonSapin: Does that make sense? Should I make that change? 05:18:00 fantasai: what does that mean? 🙂 05:18:10 Means if you parse 05:18:16 keyword || 05:18:21 or 05:18:25 keyword && 05:18:35 order is not defined in these cases 05:18:53 ok 05:19:26 Feel free to suggest a better sentence 🙂 05:20:11 is “positionally-variable” when the order *is* significant? 05:20:25 unlike keyword || or keyword && 05:21:42 or the opposite? 05:22:53 opposite 05:24:31 where the values can vary in their position 05:29:01 Ok. I think what’s in the ED now contradicts what I remembered we discussed. 05:30:47 I think we discussed a lot of things 05:31:06 what do you think it should say? 05:38:53 florian has joined #css 07:24:19 fantasai has joined #css 07:28:47 fantasai, agree re. http/https, and also not sure whether that was the main google crawlaer (i think so) or the adsense one 08:07:22 antonp has joined #css 08:11:07 fantasai has joined #css 08:20:04 antonp has joined #css 08:36:24 fantasai: In the same series: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002RI9VFI/ 08:50:16 dauwhe has joined #css 10:01:54 florian has joined #css 10:08:23 florian has joined #css 10:09:51 Florian_ has joined #css 10:17:34 florian has joined #css 10:27:35 Florian_ has joined #css 10:33:03 Florian_ has joined #css 11:13:24 Florian_ has joined #css 11:21:58 Florian_ has joined #css 11:27:12 Florian_ has joined #css 11:35:24 florian has joined #css 11:52:07 Florian_ has joined #css 12:18:22 Florian_ has joined #css 12:29:45 tantek has joined #css 12:43:59 zcorpan has joined #css 12:44:35 hello sydney 13:28:07 dael has joined #css 14:42:36 Ms2ger has joined #css 15:06:56 antonp1 has joined #css 21:33:06 RRSAgent has joined #css 21:33:06 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/08-css-irc 21:33:14 johanneswilm has joined #css 21:33:39 rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight 21:33:52 RRSAgent, make logs public 21:44:38 cyril has joined #css 21:44:52 dino has joined #css 21:45:36 xidorn has joined #css 21:49:55 heycam has joined #css 21:52:17 krit: you’re cheating ; I saw you have a bkfast at the bar downstairs 🙂 21:59:38 dbaron has joined #css 22:02:05 kwkbtr has joined #css 22:03:43 zcorpan has joined #css 22:16:21 glazou, if there is space on the agenda today or tomorrow can we talk about the Font Loading API spec (status, discuss the current spec open issues)? 22:16:42 heycam: could you please add it to the agenda on the wiki? 22:17:24 Florian has joined #css 22:18:04 dauwhe has joined #css 22:18:12 glazou, oh, I can log into the wiki. ok 🙂 22:33:33 cyril has joined #css 22:34:16 tantek has joined #css 22:38:09 jet has joined #css 22:38:14 gregwhitworth has joined #css 22:38:17 Steve Zilles, Adobe 22:38:23 Alan Stearns, Adobe 22:38:40 Greg Whitworth, Microsoft 22:38:55 Cyril Concolato, Telecom ParisTech, Observer 22:38:57 johanneswilm has joined #css 22:39:01 SteveZ has joined #css 22:39:02 Shinyu Murakami, Vivliostyle 22:39:06 Steve Zilles 22:39:06 Simon Pieters, Opera Software 22:39:08 Dave Cramer, Hachette Livre, interested in books 22:39:26 AndreyR has joined #css 22:39:34 Dean Jackson, Apple 22:39:37 Florian Rivoal, Invited Expert 22:39:39 Daniel Glazman, Disruptive Innovations, co-chair 22:39:42 Andrey Rybka Bloomberg 22:39:50 David Baron, Mozilla 22:39:51 Dirk Schulze, Adobe 22:39:52 Johannes Wilm 22:39:55 Tantek Çelik, Mozilla 22:39:55 Toru Kawakubo, Vivliostyle 22:39:57 Jet Villegas, Mozilla 22:40:06 fantasai, Invited Expert 22:40:06 Tab Atkins, Google 22:40:06 Rossen Atanassov, Microsoft 22:40:08 Peter Linss, HP, co-chair 22:40:09 Toru Kawakubo, Vivliostyle 22:40:19 Cameron McCormack, Mozilla 22:40:19 Xidorn Quan, Mozilla 22:40:26 Brian Birtles, Mozilla 22:40:31 Rick Byers, Google 22:40:33 roc has joined #css 22:40:47 Robert O’Callahan, Mozilla 22:40:59 murakami has joined #css 22:41:15 scribenick: tantek 22:41:16 https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sydney-2015#proposed-agenda-topics 22:41:36 Ian Kilpatrick, Google 22:41:49 glazou: first thing is figuring out the agenda for MT 22:41:57 W is for the FX task force 22:42:27 glazou: W is for the FX task force 22:42:35 glazou: I suggest we sort by priority 22:43:06 Dirk: what is closest to CR? 22:43:09 glazou: CSS3-UI? 22:43:16 dbaron: transitions 22:43:51 tantek: suggest prioritize things that require in-person diagrams 22:43:58 florian: maybe CSS inline 22:44:12 vollick_ has joined #css 22:44:38 dauwhe: can we do that Tuesday? 22:44:58 glazou: there were people that wanted to discuss rounded display 22:45:10 glazou: watchfaces 22:45:51 tantek: CSS3-UI box-sizing intrinsic size would be good to discuss with SVG folks on Wednesday 22:46:06 glazou: CSS3 Text and Writing modes this afternoon (Monday) 22:46:18 florian: block ellipsis and fragmentation links? 22:46:45 tantek: ok with CSS3-UI tomorrow (Tuesday) 22:46:51 fantasai: dbaron had some 2.1 issues 22:47:04 fantasai, which issues? The margin-collapsing one I haven’t even sent email about yet? 22:47:12 glazou: heycam you had font-loading issues 22:47:28 heycam: wanted to ask the questions, updates, 20 min this morning on font-loading 22:47:46 glazou: 2.1, snapshot, 2.2 first public WD 22:47:56 fantasai: 2.1 technical issues and snapshot are separate topics 22:48:23 florian: media queries? not sure my priority 22:48:29 s/snapshot/2.1+2.2+snapshot/ 22:48:29 TabAtkins: yeah 22:48:47 s/not sure my/not super high/ 22:48:51 glazou: TabAtkins you wanted to discuss … 22:48:57 TabAtkins: I need 30-45 min on … 22:49:13 glazou: Tuesday morning for @extend (?) 22:49:20 s/…/@extend 22:50:05 florian: multiline block ellipsis 22:50:13 florian: preferably not this morning 22:50:49 glazou: form styling controls – tomorrow afternoon 22:51:12 glazou: something for RoC 22:51:20 glazou: :for() for this morning 22:51:24 FYI, other FX topics have been gathered by the SVG WG here: https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Sydney_2015/Agenda_proposals 22:51:32 glazou: prev-sibling and parent combinators also this morning 22:51:44 fantasai: ::marker pseudo-element 15 min 22:51:57 glazou: dbaron margin-collapsing part of 2.1 22:52:08 glazou: tab order display switch 22:52:18 astearns: I did that, does not really need discussion 22:52:45 glazou: flex-break topics? 22:53:00 astearns: tab order put it on overflow 22:53:07 plinss: 2.1 issues ? 22:53:19 fantasai: 2.1 issues let’s do that this morning 22:53:21 tantek: agreed 22:53:40 florian: text-wrap balance ? 22:54:05 fantasai: css3 text level 4? 30 min? 22:54:13 fantasai: when doesn’t matter 22:54:38 glazou: let’s do that today 22:54:47 glazou: what is the agenda so far? 22:56:22 (lots of quiet typing) 22:57:05 fantasai: visible control characters falls under text 22:57:12 fantasai: margin-collapsing is part of 2.1 issues 22:57:40 astearns: flex-break controls could be part of text 4 discussion 22:58:16 fantasai: text-wrap balance should also be part of text level 4 22:58:29 Zakim, who is here? 22:58:29 sorry, tantek, I don’t know what conference this is 22:58:31 On IRC I see vollick_, murakami, roc, AndreyR, SteveZ, johanneswilm, gregwhitworth, jet, tantek, cyril, dauwhe, Florian, zcorpan, kwkbtr, dbaron, heycam, xidorn, dino, RRSAgent, 22:58:31 … Zakim, glazou, dwim1, hgl, antonp1, fantasai, ojan, krijnhoetmer, Rossen, shane, rbyers, dstockwell, krit, mvujovic______, ppk___, CSSWG_LogBot, liam, Rossen_, mihnea_____, 22:58:35 … amtiskaw, iank, abucur___, birtles, robertknight_clo, ato, renoirb, koji, cabanier, astearns, sgalineau, slightlyoff, hober, shepazu, logbot, JonathanNeal_, timeless, jumland, 22:58:35 … nikos 22:58:42 fantasai: css 2.2 should go with the snapshot 22:58:55 florian: can we put form controls in the overflow 22:59:34 tantek: form controls Tue PM? 22:59:55 plinss: css-sizing? 23:00:34 tantek: put it overflow 23:00:42 Rossen: put sizing Monday afternoon 23:00:55 plinss: Ruby? 23:01:39 glazou: upcoming meetings end of Tue afternoon 23:01:50 glazou: new publication system before that 23:02:32 plinss: visible control characters? 23:03:02 gregwhitworth: visible control characters part of text 23:03:20 plinss: we have an agenda? 23:03:25 glazou: how much time for 2.1 issues 23:03:28 Rossen: 11 years 23:03:37 … give or take 23:04:00 (display futzing) 23:04:45 glazou: first topic, 2.1 issues 23:04:55 fantasai: first issue, who will make the edits? 23:05:03 TabAtkins: it’s in github now so anyone can do it 23:05:11 fantasai: I nominate SimonSapin 23:05:28 glazou: that’s it? 23:05:37

This article originally appeared on https://www.w3.org/2015/02/08-css-irc